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nobumasa占狼「よし!俺、信用も護衛も取れてると思うし、ベタだけど真占だと思う方を襲撃しようぜー!」
熊沢さん潜伏狼「俺は確霊襲撃の方が有利だと思う。」
nobumasa占狼「それって占い師襲撃するメリデメリと、確霊襲撃のメリデメリを比較してって事?」
熊沢さん潜伏狼「そんな事は言っていない。」
nobumasa占狼「じゃあ、セオリーで占い師襲撃でいいんじゃない?確定霊襲撃後のプランとかあるの?」
熊沢さん潜伏狼「占狼が信用取ればいい。」
nobumasa占狼「それプランって言えるの?( ̄▽ ̄;)そんな事を言い出したら、占い師襲撃でも占狼が信用取ればいいじゃん。
それに信用取れてても、全視点詰みっていうのがあるからね。
あと、真占の時に村にも狼にも狂人決め打たれて放置された事あるけど、それでも勝った事あるよ。終盤で投票間違わない人の一票は重い。
真占と狩人は生きているだけで、狼にとっては害悪なのだ。」
熊沢さん潜伏狼「確定霊襲撃しないと、みんなポリー黒前提で話を進めそうだ。」
nobumasa占狼「確定霊襲撃しても、みんなポリー黒前提で話を進めると思うよ。ポリー黒が確定しても、熊沢さんが白くなればいい。(意趣返し)」
まぁ、実際にこう言う事が起きそうなら、
nobumasa占い狼時:「残るのは熊沢さんだから、合わせるよ。頑張れ。」
nobumasa潜伏狼時:「最後まで頑張るのは私なんだから、私に合わせてよ。」
だと思うな。
> 熊沢さん潜伏狼「確定霊襲撃しないと、みんなポリー黒前提で話を進めそうだ。」
nobumasa占狼「確定霊襲撃しても、みんなポリー黒前提で話を進めると思うよ。ポリー黒が確定しても、熊沢さんが白くなればいい。(意趣返し)」
日本の人狼プレイヤーがみんなのぶまささんみたいに確定黒と初回吊りされた人が黒かったことの区別がつかない人たちならこれは成立するけれども、別にそんなことはないのでこれは成立しないし、その心配は不要です、ご安心くださいとしか言えない。
大体「確定霊襲撃しないと、みんなポリー黒前提で話を進めそうだ」ってなんやねん。確定霊の黒ならどう考えてもポリー黒前提になるに決まってるやん。
百歩譲って霊襲撃してもポリー狼で考えそうな人が多くても、不確定の情報を元になされた推理と確定情報を元になされた推理では切り崩しやすさが段違いだし、それこそポリー狼を確定させなければ「やっぱポリー白かも」と後から意見が変わる可能性もあるわけで、誘導のしやすさも段違いだと思うのだけれども、この点どう思ってんのかな。
まあまあ、のぶまささんてそういう系男子だから
そういうところがチャームポイント、愛らしいところだから(フォロー
めっちゃそんなことを言ってるというかむしろそんな話しかしてないんだけど、のぶまささんはマジで何を読み取っているんだ。
別にのぶまささんがどういう主張をしようがどういう思想を持っていようが自由だけれど、少なくとも議論をする上で相手の主張そのものを自分の都合の良いように歪められては議論は成立しないし、客観的にみたときに、相手の主張自体を歪めるような奴の意見が支持されるのかというと、そんなことはないのではないかな。
読み取れてないかもしれないから改めて書くけれども、霊襲撃と占襲撃のメリットとデメリットを比較するなら、実際のあの村の状況に照らし合わせて、ポリーが確定黒になるデメリットと、真狂不明の占判定が最低1回増えるデメリットを比較しないとダメやろ、って話しか僕はしてないからね。
よく分からんけど自分が言ってることが正しいってことが前提てそこを絶対に譲らない奴に何をどう説明してもそれを目的とした回答しか帰ってこないんじゃないの。
早くお前が折れろってことでしょ。
その上でのぶまささんは、霊襲撃したところでポリー黒と扱われるだろうから意味ないと主張しているけれども(そもそもこの主張自体がかなり後付けっぽいがそれは一旦置いておく)、
僕が何度も言っているように、確定霊の黒判定=100%狼であることと、占霊の判定すら噛んでないただの状況黒であることは、情報の精度という観点では全く比較にならない。
だから、状況黒程度では黒確定扱いはされないだろうし、仮にそうだとしてもその世論を覆すのは不可能ではないよ、と僕は主張している。
初回吊りになるようなバカは大体吊られる前からライン切りしといた方がいいな、と思わせるような奴なので黒判定を見せとくとライン切りが効いているケースは多い。
今までnobumasaの意見にそれなりの賛同が付いたことがあるならともかく、そんなことは別にないし、自分が何か言われても自分が納得してることをぐだぐだ並べてるだけなので、今回たまたま読み取りだけ間違ったなんてことはないと思うけどね。
聞いてると初回吊りされた狼ともう一匹吊られた狼がアホにしか見えないが、詰みになったのは霊判定のせいだな。
そうか…、いくら防御2倍と言っても出先だとHPダメージ1倍だから僅差勝ちでも負傷退場敗けがあり得るのか。
まあ、攻撃部隊の移動ができなくなったことで防御部隊少ない問題を若干緩和できるっちゃできるのか…。そうかな…。
攻撃力が高いと言ってもそれ以上に相手の防御力を上げているので結局弓が最強だと思うのよな。
ポケモンと同じでガブリアスが攻撃力高いと言っても相性ゲームなんでカイロスに地震打つならサンダーで10万打った方が強い。
タイプ相性は相手の防御力にかかるので、相手の防御力を上げるだけ上げて自分の攻撃力は最大の馬なので分配されるポイントは最大の馬…相手の防御力をあげて足を引っ張っているのに…。
>>g1300
>nobumasa占狼「じゃあ、セオリーで占い師襲撃でいいんじゃない?確定霊襲撃後のプランとかあるの?」
>熊沢さん潜伏狼「占狼が信用取ればいい。」
>nobumasa占狼「それプランって言えるの?( ̄▽ ̄;)そんな事を言い出したら、占い師襲撃でも占狼が信用取ればいいじゃん。
>それに信用取れてても、全視点詰みっていうのがあるからね。
>あと、真占の時に村にも狼にも狂人決め打たれて放置された事あるけど、それでも勝った事あるよ。終盤で投票間違わない人の一票は重い。
>真占と狩人は生きているだけで、狼にとっては害悪なのだ。」
>占い師襲撃でも占狼が信用取ればいいじゃん。
信用取った方がいいのは当たり前だね。
その上で、確定霊不在だと占い師騙り狼の真決め打ちが現実的に狙えるけれど(たとえ吊られるケースでも、決め打ち&その白判定の白決め打ちの展開が望める)、確定霊が居る場合は、狼占い師の黒判定はどうしても出るんだし、占い機能が破壊されている時点で占い師ローラーにもなりやすく、また霊襲撃も狙いにくいから、全然状況が異なるよ。
>それに信用取れてても、全視点詰みっていうのがあるからね。
本譜もそうだったけれど、全視点詰む展開は、霊能者が生きてるからこそ起こりうるんでしょ。生きてなければ基本的には詰まないからね。
霊襲撃して全視点で詰むのってどういう局面を想定して言ってるのか逆に聞きたいわ。
とりあえず、今までの話を親子丼の鶏肉は焼いてから煮た方がいいか、最初から煮た方がいいかの話しに言い換えてくれ。
鶏肉の皮を下にして焦げめ付けてから親子丼にしたら香りが良かったことがあるよ。鶏肉をお湯で煮るだけで料理みたいな面をするのは害悪でしかないのだ。
新着発言はありません。RELOAD最終取得時刻 --:--:--
ページリンクを隠す [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59] [60] [61] [62] [63] [64] [65] [66] [67] [68] [69] [70] [71] [72] [73] [74] [75] [76] [77] [78] [79] [80] [81] [82] [83] [84] [85] [86] [87] [88] [89] [90] [91] [92] [93] [94] [95] [96] [97] [98] [99] [100] [101] [102] [103] [104] [105] [106] [107] [108] [109] [110] [111] [112] [113] [114] [115] [116] [117] [118] [119] [120] [121] [122] [123] [124] [125] [126] [127] [128] [129] [130] [131] [132] [133] [134] [135] [136] [137] [138] [139] [140] [141] [142] [143] [144] [145] [146] [147] [148] [149] [150] [151] [152] [153] [154] [155] [156] [157] [158] [159] [160] [161] [162] [163] [164] [165] [166] [167] [168] [169] [170] [171] [172] [173] [174] [175] [176] [177] [178] [179] [180] [181] [182] [183] 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