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発言欄へ
視点：
人
狼
墓
全
憑
全て表示
もっと読む
知らんけど、巷のサイファー狂人のクオリティって「吊り縄をもらいに来た狂人｣「喉を潰しにきた狂人｣「リソースがどうこう｣でしかなかったと思ってるんで。
(17618) 2020/03/15(Sun) 21:28:04
率先してかどや顔で喉潰してる人が「喉潰しに来た狂人ワロスwww｣みたいになってるのはなかなかシュールやん。
(17619) 2020/03/15(Sun) 21:29:47
(17620) 2020/03/15(Sun) 21:31:00
(17621) 2020/03/15(Sun) 21:31:17
>>17617
そこらへん、「そんだけサイファーが偽っぽかったんだよ」ってことが言いたかったんだろうしそのお気持ちは理解するけれど、そこはサイファーの話を聞くに値しないとしたり、手順を守る気もなかった村側のミスということには一切ならんのか…？とは思っていた。
サイファーの主張に対しては「まるでサイファーが自分が悪くないって言ってるみたいで態度がムカつく」みたいなことを言っていたのだけれど、いやそのお前らのサイファーが信用されんかったのがすべて、みたいな態度こそ自分が悪くないアピールじゃねえのかよ…と言いたかったのはここだけの話である。
(17622) 2020/03/15(Sun) 21:34:56
(17623) 2020/03/15(Sun) 21:37:06
(17624) 2020/03/15(Sun) 21:38:27
いやまあ、サイファーが偽っぽいと考えたのは分かるんだけれどね…でもさ、「サイファーの自分悪くないみたいな主張や態度はやめろ」ってのと「サイファーが信用されなかったのがすべて」という主張が同居してることに、自分でおかしいとは思わんかったのかね、とは思っていた。
(17625) 2020/03/15(Sun) 21:41:50
サイファー偽でもクオリティ高い要素はあんまりない気がするな…サイファー偽なら紫雲偽や判定騙りを考えない限り朧は狼確定なのだけれどそのまま吊りを通してるし。発言諦めずに頑張ってることくらいしか評価できない。
(17626) 2020/03/15(Sun) 21:46:13
サイファーが偽っぽいっていうの自体は俺も状況的にそう思うんだうな、と言うのは分かるんだけど偽っぽいから吊ろうと言うのは何も繋がってないんだよな…霊吊りがあったみたいだし。
(17627) 2020/03/15(Sun) 21:48:06
別に俺は潜伏狂人が狼側に有益かどうかの観点で話してないし…。四日目とエピの一部しか読んでないんだから。
(17628) 2020/03/15(Sun) 21:49:31
逆にサイファーを先に吊ることに何か戦略的な意図が存在してたのだろうか？
リソースがどうこうとかとは別に。
そこら辺があんまり言及されてたのかが確認できていない。
リソース云々はミュートにすれば？程度の対策が取れると思ってしまうし。
(17629) 2020/03/15(Sun) 21:51:33
偽っぽいし話を聞く価値もないから吊ろうみたいな感じだったな確か。
黒を出された月長（狼）と深雪（狼）、朧に黒を引いたことでサイファーの判定と整合性が取れない乃亜（狼）、そして対抗の紫雲（狂人）の視点ではサイファー偽確定なので、この狼陣営の4票が入るのは当然ではあるのだけれども。
(17630) 2020/03/15(Sun) 21:54:47
話を聞く価値がないのと、吊るの無関係やん？聞きたくないなら聞かなければいいんだし。
のあ？の話を聞く価値が判定情報以上にあるのかとかそう言う話になってくるんじゃないの？
(17631) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:00:25
まあ、俺もその手順吊りがどの程度重要な手順かはよく分かってないからなんとも言えない部分があるわけだけど。
(17632) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:01:55
蓮花
<http://hrodvitnir.sakura.ne.jp>
15,24,136
猫
<http://hrodvitnir.sakura.ne.jp>
18,25,33,72,137,138
梢
<http://hrodvitnir.sakura.ne.jp>
19,35,71,292
この辺り？
(17633) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:05:32
蓮花は自分が狩人だからこそサイファーが狩人を炙ってるように見えた、という点に関しては仕方なかったと思う（それ言い出したのは6日目くらいだったけれど）。
(17634) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:06:50
判定を見るという意味ではサイファーも残りは乃亜か紫雲を占うくらいしかないからそんなに価値がないので、純粋に話を聞く価値があるかだけで判断されたのだと思われる。
乃亜真なら乃亜の推理が紫雲の黒を探すための手掛かりになるかも、という発想自体はわからなくもない。
(17635) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:09:57
(g984) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:10:29
ちなみに乃亜がサイファーの判定を見る価値は、サイファーが乃亜ないし紫雲を占うこと以上にない（朧とアンネリーで2黒引いてるのでサイファー黒ならその時点でエピローグ）。
(17636) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:11:17
(17637) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:11:40
なのでサイファー先吊りに戦略的意図があるとすれば「偽決め打ったから」だね。
(17638) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:13:30
(g985) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:18:48
そもそも論だけど、謝罪って要求する物ではないんじゃないの？
riotさんの件の時も少し思ったんだけど。
(17639) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:21:15
(17640) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:29:07
潜伏占い師が出てくると今までしてた議論が無駄になる、って当時も思ったけど面白い発想だな。
(17641) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:31:41
(17642) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:31:57
議論が無駄になったぞこの野郎くそがあ！！となっていたのなら面白い。
(17643) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:32:51
(17644) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:33:10
そもそもその潜伏中の議論を用いて狼陣営当ててたわけだし…。
(17645) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:35:55
>>17640 メタガチ村でマリーベルだったからかな。
偽黒打たれ狩人誤認狩人騙りした時の話のリーリだったらなんか謝るような事したっけ？
(g986) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:36:47
(17646) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:38:12
>>17625
ちなみにこのサイファーが信用されなかったのがすべて論、サイファーを判断する側の人間が公正公平かつ正しい審美眼を持っていたという保証が存在しない以上は「理由はどうであれサイファーは信用されなかった」以上の意味は存在しないはずなのだけれど、果たしてこれを主張する側にこういう視点が存在しているのかどうかはわからない。
(17647) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:38:44
(17648) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:39:47
人のお気持ちを理解しろ論、これ自体はわからなくもないけど、潜伏したことで偽決め打ちされたり謝罪を要求されたりしたサイファーのお気持ちがどう理解されていたのかは興味ある。
(17649) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:41:03
(17650) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:42:08
リーリから正式の謝罪があったら熊沢さんの敵になるわ。
(17651) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:43:35
人狼ゲーム、「ゲームであること」「勝利のためであること」という大義名分が存在するせいか、かなり保守的な主張ですら議論の余地なき当然のものとして認識されるケースが出てくる点は面白いんだよな。
(17652) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:45:51
独断潜伏をするな、議論を無駄にするな、子供は風の子元気な子、内で遊ばず外に出ろ、貞淑さのないふしだらな女は許すな！
(17653) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:48:12
>>17651
そ、そんな…。
でも大丈夫。画面端に謝罪する奇人なんてきーろんくらいしかいないはず…。
(17654) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:53:26
「不登校児の長期人狼は論外」もかなり保守的な思想だとは思ったけど、あれは管理人視点ということで理解できなくもない。厄介な客は抱えたくない気持ちは分かる。
(17655) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:55:40
>>17646 ぐたで占い師あいがさのリーリの話じゃなかったか。
画面端さんはその時フェンだったと思ったけど
(g987) 2020/03/15(Sun) 22:57:32
(17656) 2020/03/15(Sun) 23:02:44
(17657) 2020/03/15(Sun) 23:04:20
次潜伏することがあったとして、もっと信用されるためには何が必要かを考えておこう。そもそもするかどうかわからんけど。
(17658) 2020/03/15(Sun) 23:04:37
画面端さんが私に謝るんだろ？？？？？？？
ほら、画面端さん
きいろんさんにごめんなさいは？
(17659) 2020/03/15(Sun) 23:04:51
そいやさ、私が自分のことをきいろんさんきいろんさんて言うせいで危うく職場で「私は●●のきいろんて呼ばれてますからね」といいかけたわ
なんとか「私は●●の……（苗字）て呼ばれてますからね！（ドヤ顔」と言えたけど
変な沈黙は空いてしまった
(17660) 2020/03/15(Sun) 23:07:51
>>17658 くまざわさんどんまい
今度きいろんがクソ占い師ムーヴを伝授するよ
(17661) 2020/03/15(Sun) 23:08:47
(17662) 2020/03/15(Sun) 23:08:58
>>17662 いつからきいろんさんの苗字がきいろんだと錯覚していた？
(17663) 2020/03/15(Sun) 23:09:56
新着発言はありません。RELOAD最終取得時刻 --:--:--
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